Considering all the points of view put forward, we could keep ‘geological age’, but improve the definition in the MIDS so that it's clear that in this instance it refers to all the different age models - with some examples. Otherwise we could use one of the other terms put forward by Rachel. i.e. Earth Science Age or Geoscience age. Cheers Laura On 2023-09-27 16:37, Patricia Mergen wrote: > Well Specimen age can also be used in life sciences but needs clear > definition. As it can mean the date it was killed or found or observed > or the age it had when it died. Not sure what how it will be > Interpreted or missinterpreted in Geological sciences. > > All the best > > Pat > > On Wed, 27 Sep 2023, 16:11 Nick Fraser, <Nick.Fraser@nms.ac.uk> wrote: > >> Apologies for coming late to this party. Maybe we could really >> simplify this by just going with "Specimen Age." It will otherwise >> be very difficult to cover all the subdisciplines within the >> Geological collections and I think it is really important we do >> that. I think the terminology has to be something that can be used >> by all branches of geology. >> >> All the best, >> >> Nick >> >> ------------------------- >> >> FROM: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> on behalf of Michael Howe - >> BGS - mhowe at bgs.ac.uk [1] (via cetaf_earthsc list) >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> >> SENT: 26 September 2023 16:31 >> TO: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> >> SUBJECT: RE: [CETAF_ESG] MIDS terminology which is correct >> geological age or chronostratigraphic age >> >> It’s not just meteorites that cause database complications – >> building stone samples are worse. >> >> Location of building ……… Location of source (e.g. quarry) >> (if known) >> >> “Geological age” of the building stone ………… Historical >> age of the building………Date of sampling >> >> J >> >> Mike >> >> FROM: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> ON BEHALF OF Rachel Walcott >> SENT: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 4:18 PM >> TO: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> CC: EHaston@rbge.org.uk >> SUBJECT: Re: [CETAF_ESG] MIDS terminology which is correct >> geological age or chronostratigraphic age >> >> Thanks Giles, >> >> I see the issue with Geological Age. It's a bit of a landmine >> trying to find a term that is broad enough to accommodate the >> different disciplines in geosciences but has not already been >> claimed as a definition term! "Age of formation", "formation age" >> are options but also problems with it. Maybe a "Geoscience Age" or >> "Earth Science Age" is better, it is clunky but it might work. >> >> Unfortunately I don't think having two terms solves the problem as >> the diversity of the way ages are used in the Earth Science >> subdisciplines is greater than that. For example the find date of a >> meteorite is not really a geological age at all, and certainly not a >> "mineralogical age". ... >> >> I would advocate for a single 'time' term (for now) but it could >> have a different name >> >> R >> >> FROM: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> on behalf of Giles Miller - >> g.miller at nhm.ac.uk [2] (via cetaf_earthsc list) >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> >> SENT: 26 September 2023 16:59 >> TO: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> >> CC: EHaston@rbge.org.uk <EHaston@rbge.org.uk> >> SUBJECT: RE: [CETAF_ESG] MIDS terminology which is correct >> geological age or chronostratigraphic age >> >> Thanks Rachel. I’m not sure if my previous message came through or >> not as your message below is a reply to an earlier thread. I see >> your point below and this was why I questioned at the meeting the >> process of trying to shoehorn us all into agreeing a single >> standard. I would still question the use of “Geological Age” as >> this has a specific meaning in some standards (I mentioned Gradstein >> and Ogg before but IUGS is also relevant). Presumably LS record >> types will be able to have this field un-populated? Why not have two >> “age” fields to account for Palaeontological and Mineralogical >> collection types? I would bring in another issue here in that >> Lithostratigraphic terms are not specifically age relevant. Ie there >> is a difference between a Chronostratigraphic term that implies a >> period in time and a Lithostratigraphic term that relates to the >> relative position of the rock units in stratigraphy. How about >> “Mineralogical Age” and “Palaeontological Stratigraphy” or >> simply “Stratigraphy”? >> >> Hope that makes sense. All the best, Giles >> >> FROM: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> ON BEHALF OF Rachel Walcott >> SENT: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 3:21 PM >> TO: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> CC: EHaston@rbge.org.uk >> SUBJECT: Re: [CETAF_ESG] MIDS terminology which is correct >> geological age or chronostratigraphic age >> >> I proposed the term "Geological Age" at the MIDS meeting as a >> compromise because "stratigraphy" (chrono- or strat-) is simply >> not used in many earth science disciplines - namely the fields of >> IGNEOUS AND METAMORPHIC PETROLOGY, MINERALOGY and METEORITICS and >> much of ECONOMIC GEOLOGY. There is a reason you will find >> stratigraphy in paleontology databases but _not_ in the databases >> for disciplines mentioned above such as mindat, earthchem etc >> >> As Mike has pointed out "Geological age" is broad enough to >> accommodate a range of time terms. It can accommodate a >> stratigraphic age, if your collections have those data or find them >> useful. However, it can _also_ accommodate the kinds of ages that >> are found in the other type of geological collections, such as >> structural age, measured age, fall or find date. MIDS information >> elements need to be practical to use to be useful, therefore it is >> important that are relevant to the kind of data we actually have in >> our diverse collections. >> >> A handicap CETAF-ESG faces in trying to represent the diverse world >> of Earth Sciences, is that there are very few members who work with >> other (esp non bio/paleontologically) branches of geology so far. >> This is partially due to the biological focus of CETAF of course. It >> is therefore easy to misrepresent the data, users, and needs of >> these communities. MIDS terms need to be broad enough to encompass >> data used by the full range of geo-communities , therefore I think >> Geological Age remains a more sensible term to use. >> >> Rachel >> >> ------------------------- >> >> FROM: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> on behalf of Kvaček Jiří >> <jiri.kvacek@nm.cz> >> SENT: 26 September 2023 14:12 >> TO: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> >> CC: EHaston@rbge.org.uk <EHaston@rbge.org.uk> >> SUBJECT: RE: [CETAF_ESG] MIDS terminology which is correct >> geological age or chronostratigraphic age >> >> I agre with the chronostratigraphic age that is more precise term. >> >> On the other hand, what other age would be considered? >> >> Best wishe >> >> Jiri >> >> FROM: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com >> <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> ON BEHALF OF >> laura.tilley@cetaf.org >> SENT: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 1:30 PM >> TO: ESG <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> >> CC: EHaston@rbge.org.uk >> SUBJECT: [CETAF_ESG] MIDS terminology which is correct geological >> age or chronostratigraphic age >> >> Dear ESG members, >> >> I am writing to seek advice on the use of terminology in the Minimum >> Information about a Digital Specimen standard. The working group on >> MIDS is close to finalizing MIDS level 2. >> >> For a specimen to be classified as MIDS level 2 it needs have some >> basic information elements associated with it in a database. >> >> For Earth Science collections this includes Age. The term that they >> have used to describe this information element is ‘geological >> age’ but I would like to confirm with you which is the correct >> term ‘Geological age’ or ‘Chronostratigraphic age’? >> >> I consider ‘Chronostratigraphic age’ more encompassing and is >> relevant to all types of Earth Science Specimens. Plus, I consider >> ‘geological age’ to be defined as the lowest rank unit (stages) >> in the geological timescale. It may not be possible to allocate >> specimens to the high resolution of stage or absolute age but rather >> only allocated at series/Epoch or even more broadly - period. >> >> Please provide your thoughts so this can be finalized. >> >> Thank you in advance >> >> Kind regards >> >> Laura >> >> To unsubscribe from this list please go to >> https://www.simplelists.com [3] >> >> To unsubscribe from this list please go to >> https://www.simplelists.com [4] >> >> National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 >> >> This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are >> not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from >> your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message >> are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of >> National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to UK Data >> Protection legislation and the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act >> 2002. 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