--------------------------------------HI Laura,
Preservation method could be misinterpreted (in this context) to mean any kind of fixation/conservation methods that have been taken. An item “Preservation method: Macrofossils” would be hard to understand
It you want to use the word “preservation” use it as “Type of preservation” or something similar, but not “method”
All the best & Happy Xmas
Andreas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Andreas Kroh
Head of the NHM Vienna Publishing HouseAnnalen des Naturhistorischen Museums in Wien, Serie A, Editor-in-Chief
Zootaxa, Subject Editor for Echinodermata
Natural History Museum Vienna
Geological-Paleontological Dept.
Burgring 7 – 1010 Vienna – Austria – EU
Tel: 0043-1-52177-576
Fax: 0043-1-52177-459
World Register of Marine Species
Steering Committee Member & Taxonomic Editor for Echinoidea
http://www.marinespecies.org/echinoidea/
OeTyp - Online-Database of palaeontological type specimens in Austrian collections
http://www.oeaw.ac.at/oetyp/palhome.htm
Von: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> Im Auftrag von laura.tilley@cetaf.org
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Dezember 2019 14:35
An: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Betreff: RE: Re[4]: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Hi Jiri and everyone,
Jiri – thankyou -I will provide examples of fossils in liquid. I will also take your logical point about Dead and fossilised organisms and check the terminology.
One more thing everyone. Do you think that the term ‘Storage type’ is intuitive or should it be changed to ‘Preservation method’
If you could provide your thoughts by the end of the day that would be great.
Have a good Christmas also everyone!
Best wishes
Laura
Dr. Laura Tilley
Project Assistant
CETAF, AISBL
+32 (0) 2 627 42 50
CONSORTIUM OF EUROPEAN TAXONOMIC FACILITIES
c/o Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences
rue Vautier, 29 1000, Brussels. Belgium
Exploring and documenting diversity in nature
Disclaimer: The information contained in this e-mail message it is privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized use, printing, copying, disclosure or dissemination of this communication may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please reply to the sender and delete this message from your computer.
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From: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> On Behalf Of Jirí Kvacek
Sent: 18 December 2019 14:26
To: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Subject: Re[4]: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Thanks a lot Laura
Just a small comment to "Dead and Fosilized Organisms". It is just a matter of logic that palaeontology deals with fossils and not dead oragnisms. These are object of study of zoology and botany. All herbarium specimens are dead plants. On the other hand even Holocene plant remains are fosilized, so I would not call them dead plants.
Second item: If needed I can provide some examples of fossils in liquids.
Jiri
----- Původní zpráva -----
Odesilatel: laura.tilley@cetaf.org
Datum: 18.12.2019 14:04
Příjemce: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Předmět: RE: Re[2]: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Dear colleagues,
I would like to thank you all for providing helpful advice for trying to determine the taxonomic classification and storage classification for geology and palaeontology collections. I have tried to cater to your suggestions - whilst keeping in mind that the categories have to be flexible/functional/clear enough so that further categorisation can be hinged off them. It's a challenging task.
I need to have the classifications finalised by Friday - ready for testing.
Please see my final suggestions: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19hBCnsLkMILmfaFMy_YwcSiUlOVB99z7CDFnkwrrxe8/edit?usp=sharing
Please say whether you agree with my recommendations by 9:00am tomorrow. If you do not agree provide a reason, even better a possible solution.
Best wishes
Laura
Dr. Laura Tilley
Project Assistant
CETAF, AISBL
+32 (0) 2 627 42 50
CONSORTIUM OF EUROPEAN TAXONOMIC FACILITIES
c/o Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences
rue Vautier, 29 1000, Brussels. Belgium
Exploring and documenting diversity in nature
Disclaimer: The information contained in this e-mail message it is privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized use, printing, copying, disclosure or dissemination of this communication may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please reply to the sender and delete this message from your computer.
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From: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> On Behalf Of Jirí Kvacek
Sent: 18 December 2019 10:12
To: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Subject: Re[2]: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Dear Laura,
I continue in our discussion, although it¨seems to be complicated to keep tack.
Mesofossils are kept separately in small cells as already described or on SEM stubs. They are usuually kept dry, but can be kept in plastic boxes in liquid - in glycerol or silicon oil.
Also macrofossils can be kept in liquid (Messel).
In terms of terminology we use slab or handspecimen (our database is in English).
Jiri
----- Původní zpráva -----
Odesilatel: laura.tilley@cetaf.org
Datum: 17.12.2019 12:53
Příjemce: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Předmět: RE: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Dear Nick, Giles and Jiri,
Thank you for your useful responses. I am going address emails collectively to save filling every ones inbox.
I will not use the term handspecimen - it appears to be in common use in UK institutes but not in other European Countries.
Giles - comment on does SYNTHESYS need to follow the categorisation of Life Sciences.
Giles thank you for the table good to have insight on how objects are managed. No we do not have to conform to life sciences. So basically the Classification Scheme that I am discussing was developed under the project ICEDIG. Under SYNTHESYS+ Work package NA2 the aim is to enhance these classification schemes further for the purpose of the dashboard which will be the window for the discoverability etc of Dissco collections, and also for the ELVIS (loans system), which the dashboard will also be embedded.
I will answer Steffen's questions in the next email and I will attach a presentation that will hopefully help everyone understand the bigger picture of the dashboard and how it will serve different user types.
A question to Giles or anyone else who is a curator in geology - do you get geological objects preserved in Fluid?
Jiri - Mesofossils
Okay I can definitely consider adding them - I will try - are they managed differently to Macro-fossils, micros fossils. They refer to mainly plant fossils but maybe would be a good idea to have them as a another category.
Nick - Miscellaneous items - e.g. crystal models, replicas, old specimen labels, old cards with results of analysis, or sketches of crystal morphology.
These are out of the scope of the dashboard. Just the real physical object is considered. No Legacy classifications.
Nick - Tektites need a home - while they are terrestrial rocks they are formed by an extraterrestrial impact and it would be good to differentiate these.
Good point. They are tricky because they are a mixture of melt material. However - I feel that they should be in geology. Extraterrestrial to refer to things that are either from space (e.g. moon rock), and landed on Earth (meteorite). Not formed on Earth as the result of an extra-terrestrial objectile - Maybe?
Its hard to figure out what is best - it depends on how extraterrestrial material is managed and used- is extra-terrestrial material managed/used in mostly geology. Its hard to cater for everything - just need to makesure that categories are functional enough that people can find their own way - like Patricia said.
Nick - Hydrocarbons and fossiliferous limestone - do these go under geology or palaeontology.
Geology
Nick - Will cut gems go under "hand specimens": minerals? (some are hardly 'hand'specimens though).
They could fit under macro-object? If they are to small for the naked eye - Micro - object?
Nick do you have any insight whether they need special handling?
Thank you again for the input - it really is a challenge to define objects/material. The important point is that there needs to be a balance between workload of the people who will be providing quantity data for these categories, vs how informative the categories are for different users, we want the dashboard to give a broad insight into collections not to detailed that its hard to analyse. The Dashboard will be a starting point to get an overview.
Hope this makes sense.
Best wishes
Laura
Dr. Laura Tilley
Project Assistant
CETAF, AISBL
+32 (0) 2 627 42 50
CONSORTIUM OF EUROPEAN TAXONOMIC FACILITIES
c/o Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences
rue Vautier, 29 1000, Brussels. Belgium
Exploring and documenting diversity in nature
Disclaimer: The information contained in this e-mail message it is privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized use, printing, copying, disclosure or dissemination of this communication may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please reply to the sender and delete this message from your computer.
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From: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> On Behalf Of Steffen Kiel
Sent: 17 December 2019 11:25
To: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Subject: RE: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Hi Laura and everyone else,
Thanks Laura for showing the taxonomic classification now. I would strongly recommend including 'microfossils' in this list rather than having the micropaleontologists' fossils being de-classified as 'others'. In terms of numbers, scientific visitors and scientific output, microfossils perform way better than 'Trace fossils', which are given their own category.
But I have a more general question: what exactly is this 'dashboard' and who will be using it? I can see that information on storage could be interesting 'behind the scenes', for statistics and recommendations to stakeholders. But if this dashboard will serve as an entry point for scientific searches, I don't see that storage would be of great importance. I doubt that even people working on whales would start their search by clicking on 'oversized' rather than 'vertebrates'. I mean, who goes into a book store or library and says "I want a big book"? Or to respond to Pat's example, I doubt that someone working on earth worms would start searching by clicking on 'soil samples'. Please enlighten me on the potential users (and use cases) of this dashboard.
Regarding the geological storage classifications; I forwarded your request to a curator in geology - here is what he had to say:
"We don't use a "storage classification" based on hand-specimens, slides, cores etc. These are categorized as preparations, and are usually kept with the "mother" specimen based on taxonomy."
All the best,
Steffen
From: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> On Behalf Of Patricia Mergen
Sent: den 17 december 2019 05:19
To: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Subject: Re: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Dear all
Reading to the comments for earthsciences but also the parallel discussions on other collections, I see that it is quite difficult to separate classifications of the objects and their specific storage media or form in many cases.
Even if this creates redundancy or overlap, I think for the dash board to work it is important to try to have good functional terms and also the community of users be they experts from the domain or not find their way. If you take a soil sample earth since may look at the minerals, micro fossils in it, while others into recent worms, bacteria, microorganisms, pollen ... while the storage maybe the same.
For metrics and statistics reason we may need to have synonyms or overarching term for similar storage manners and different granularity in the terms. This is true for other categories as well
Can the Dashboard system handle hierarchies of terms? One to one, one to many and many to many relationships between terms ?
Will we keep the tool currently used or can we have all flexibility in handling the terms (as controlled vocabularies for collections descriptors)?
In principle we produce here a standard with concepts and for each a list of discipline related controlled vocabularies.
The it tools will then need to be compatible with the specifications defined.
At least that how it worked for currently used tdwg standards where the IT tools were developed at the same time as the standard to be best compatible.
Here with the ongoing development of these terms and Elvis/Dashboard we have the same opportunity for success.
All the best
Pat
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019, 22:36 Jiří Kvaček, <jiri_kvacek@nm.cz> wrote:
Hi Laura, Andreas, Bjorn and others
I think hand specimen is more general in terms of what is preserved in a collecion.
If the fossil is isolated then it remains a fossil, however if the fossil is surrounded by original sediment than it is a hand specimen or slab for me.
What I miss there is a description of a mesofossil and its container typically termed in our language as a cell (Franke Cell- paper container of size of a preparation glass with a circular space covered by a lid - covering glass). I do not know if there is something acceptable in English.
Best wishes
Jiri
----- Původní zpráva -----
Odesilatel: Kroh Andreas (andreas.kroh@NHM-WIEN.AC.AT)
Datum: 16.12.2019 16:46
Příjemce: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Předmět: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Hi Laura,
I do not know what native speaking geologists use for German "Handstück" - I cannot remember having seen the term "hand specimen" in usage anywhere, but I may be wrong.
Typically these were simply called rock samples in the US/UK collections I visited.
Best wishes
Andreas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Andreas Kroh
Head of the NHM Vienna Publishing HouseAnnalen des Naturhistorischen Museums in Wien, Serie A, Editor-in-Chief
Zootaxa, Subject Editor for Echinodermata
Natural History Museum Vienna
Geological-Paleontological Dept.
Burgring 7 - 1010 Vienna - Austria - EU
Tel: 0043-1-52177-576
Fax: 0043-1-52177-459
World Register of Marine Species
Steering Committee Member & Taxonomic Editor for Echinoidea
http://www.marinespecies.org/echinoidea/
OeTyp - Online-Database of palaeontological type specimens in Austrian collections
http://www.oeaw.ac.at/oetyp/palhome.htm
Von: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> Im Auftrag von laura.tilley@cetaf.org
Gesendet: Montag, 16. Dezember 2019 16:25
An: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Betreff: RE: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Hello Andreas,
Thank you for your reply! Firstly with regards to the Palaeontology Taxonomic classification, I did not add it to the google sheet because no issues have been raised about it - but I have just added it now so you can see how palaeontology is defined. Okay, Celia also made the comment that Steffen has an important point about separating Microfossils and Macrofossils - so I will define these as categories in storage. You have some good points also - I need to just think how I can combine them in to useful categories. I will not use hand specimen. I wonder if hand specimen is the correct term to use in Geology? - from a curatorial point of view.
Best wishes
Laura
Dr. Laura Tilley
Project Assistant
CETAF, AISBL
+32 (0) 2 627 42 50
CONSORTIUM OF EUROPEAN TAXONOMIC FACILITIES
c/o Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences
rue Vautier, 29 1000, Brussels. Belgium
Exploring and documenting diversity in nature
Disclaimer: The information contained in this e-mail message it is privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized use, printing, copying, disclosure or dissemination of this communication may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please reply to the sender and delete this message from your computer.
Be green, read on screen!
From: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> On Behalf Of Kroh Andreas
Sent: 16 December 2019 16:02
To: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com
Subject: AW: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Hi Laura,
I do not see any palaeontology under the heading "Taxonomic Type"
Based on past experience I know that most geologists and mineralogists would object to the usage of the word taxonomy for a classification involving their objects.
Under "Storage classification"
I assume "Handspecimens" is a direct translation for German "Handstück" - this is not in common usage. I would strongly support the term "Macrofossil" instead
I also second Steffen's comment reg. Microfossils
Thin sections could be a separate category - since these can be both micro- or macrofossil in origin
Like Steffen I never saw fossil liquids, but what does exist are macrofossils stored in liquid (alcohol or glycerine) - I would simply have classified these as "Macrofossils", but if you want to put emphasis on storage concerns they could be keyed out as separate category
Very commonly very large objects are stored in separate storage areas in collections - so again, if the focus is storage these could form a separate category ("Oversized specimens" or similar)
Often, fossil bearing sieving residues are stored alongside microfossil collections - often in different cabinets or even rooms - again possibly a different category.
Many collections separate any vertebrate (or only mammalian) remains from the other fossils and do classify them in "normal sized" bones and micro mammals (or micro vertebrates). I know this is now a mixture of taxonomy and size, but I just want to bring it to your attention as it is common.
All the best
Andreas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Andreas Kroh
Head of the NHM Vienna Publishing HouseAnnalen des Naturhistorischen Museums in Wien, Serie A, Editor-in-Chief
Zootaxa, Subject Editor for Echinodermata
Natural History Museum Vienna
Geological-Paleontological Dept.
Burgring 7 - 1010 Vienna - Austria - EU
Tel: 0043-1-52177-576
Fax: 0043-1-52177-459
World Register of Marine Species
Steering Committee Member & Taxonomic Editor for Echinoidea
http://www.marinespecies.org/echinoidea/
OeTyp - Online-Database of palaeontological type specimens in Austrian collections
http://www.oeaw.ac.at/oetyp/palhome.htm
Von: cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com> Im Auftrag von laura.tilley@cetaf.org
Gesendet: Montag, 16. Dezember 2019 12:40
An: ESG <cetaf_earthsc@cetaf.simplelists.com>
Betreff: [CETAF_ESG] Advice needed on earth science collection descriptions
Dear colleagues,
I am writing to kindly ask for your advice on defining the standardised terminology "classification schemes" developed in SYNTHESYS+ for geological, palaeontological collections/objects, and also Extraterrestrial if possible. I realise the current terminology for taxonomic type and storage need urgent revision because they are not really useful. I have made revisions and ask if you agree with my suggestions or to give further input. I am aware that most of you are curators - so with regards to storage: Are my suggestions meaningful? Have I covered the main categories in which geological, palaeontological and Extraterrestrial objects are contained? Please note that it is important not to go into much detailed, the categories should be useful for high-level reporting.
Google sheets with my new suggestions (highlighted in green) of categorisation: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19hBCnsLkMILmfaFMy_YwcSiUlOVB99z7CDFnkwrrxe8/edit#gid=0
In red are the original terms for comparison.
I would please like your feedback before the 20th December
General Terminology to be aware of: Taxonomic type: This refers to collection type e.g. for Palaeontology: invertebrates, vertebrates, botany & mycology. For Geology: minerology, petrology etc.
Storage classification: refers to what form collection objects are stored. This classification aims to be useful for information on building planning, help decision for investment of storage facilities etc.
Background
These classification schemes are being developed in SYNTHESYS+ they will be at the core of describing collections within DiSSCo, and will allow the discoverability, accessibility, mobilisation of collection data held in institutes. More specifically I am coordinating the task involved in developing a collection digitisation dashboard in which the classification schemes are being developed. The dashboard will provide high level information on collections related to Collection Taxonomic types, Storage, geographic region etc. the goal is to facilitate the discoverability of collections as well as decision making on institutional, governmental and research levels - what facilities are needed, building planning, prioritisation of digitisation, research collaboration etc.
It is important since we are the community that will be using these terms, and the goal is to promote the use of these terms beyond DiSSCo.
I hope my request make sense if not please feel free to contact me.
Thank you in advance for your help
Best wishes
Laura
Dr. Laura Tilley
Project Assistant
CETAF, AISBL
+32 (0) 2 627 42 50
CONSORTIUM OF EUROPEAN TAXONOMIC FACILITIES
c/o Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences
rue Vautier, 29 1000, Brussels. Belgium
Exploring and documenting diversity in nature
Disclaimer: The information contained in this e-mail message it is privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized use, printing, copying, disclosure or dissemination of this communication may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please reply to the sender and delete this message from your computer.
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Naturhistorisches Museum
1010 Wien, Burgring 7
Firmenbuchnummer: FN 236724z
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UID: ATU 38020609
Rechtsform: Wissenschaftliche Anstalt
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